citylogs | [open] plot clue club meeting

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[open] plot clue club meeting

WHO: Junpei

coolerjunpei and You
WHAT: Secret Info Club Meeting and general Plot Clue mingling
WHERE: a conference room. with snacks!
WHEN: roughly DECEMBER!!! 12 this never once said nov
WARNINGS: tba

network preamble

[Having come into some fascinating information, Junpei—

obsessively studies it for a solid day

—and then un: junpei posts something very short and simple to the network for once:]

hey, it's junpei. i'm in the 5th floor conference room in the district 2 building by the bowling alley if anybody wants to know some *big names* and read some pages that aren't half blacked out. you know, for fun.

i've got some chips too. come check it out if you want.

log part

[The conference room is all decked out for some frantic information sharing, or rather:

Junpei has hastily set out some snacks, that is: some bags of chips and a few soda bottles, mostly what he could grab as quickly as possible from the nearest convenience store. He's also tossed some pens and notepads kind of randomly onto the table.

On the wheely whiteboard he's pushed up to the end of the room, the head of the conference table, he's written in big ol' letters:

INFO CLUB MEETING
TAKE A DOCUMENT SHARE A DOCUMENT
IDEAS???

DON'T SPREAD IT AROUND TOO MUCH YET, WE MIGHT GET PHANTOM ARRESTED OR WHATEVER

The most orderly thing here is the stack of ✨✨Documents✨✨ up by the whiteboard. These, he has put in the effort to not make a frantic mess of. Welcome to the club.]

OOC: this is a mingle for the ✨plot clue✨ junpei has received and it is open to anyone who might be interested in the information! if you have cr with junpei or have talked to him even once about The Mysteries, you're welcome to handwave that he sent your character a personal cryptic text about something important, come see. otherwise, seeing his network message and showing up is just fine too.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[Alhaitham realizes he's getting the devil's advocate role because he asked the question. If the situation weren't serious he'd argue about it.

But as it'stheir freedom on the line:]

Alright. [Alhaitham gestures.] Make your case as the researcher.

[ kaveh brightens. that red glint sparks in the corner of his eyes as he turns his chair just enough to face alhaitham. he considers this. where to start? ]

I am a researcher for an experiment meant to test human nature to destruction. This is ostensibly so we can have data to figure out how to stave off the apocalypse as described in the changing of the climate. I have a team, and a budget, and a supervisor above me - or the technology has grown so advanced that I am the only one needed to monitor the data, but I must submit progress reports above.

I am accountable for the experimentees being none the wiser to the experiment at hand for the purest possible permutation of the data. The behaviour of particles change when they are observed; so, too, do the behaviours of people in an experiment when they know they are observed. I have no incentive for giving them the information, until I do. The reason is that I need to provide them with a goal to move forward together, on the basis of collaboration, as previous experiments have all failed to achieve that goal.

You position that giving them a specific enemy to unite against will encourage that cooperation that has failed in ease prior experiment. But in that regard, you have absolute control of the environment. You could make anything the new reality of your test subjects. Why would you need to release your own or your supervisor's personal information?

Because the people of the city that we've gathered, through selection or not, aren't idiots. They have been testing the boundaries since day one - they will continue to do so in ways we can't entirely predict, unless we give them a predictable avenue to go down, thereby limiting their choices to something that we can predict and manage.

For example, what would they even do with a single researcher's profile? They have no way of communicating with us; they have no way of utilising this information. They will die with it. It is a fine distraction in a way that directs them down a path I know I can control.

If the information was truly useless that means that they have a degree of control over the situation that makes our boundary testing, even unpredictably, a minor issue. Why would they worry about how many times we try to walk through the fog? It's only a problem if they have reasonable concern we can break the simulation.

Also, every other piece of information has simply been provided to us directly rather than being left in strange places. It was also accessible to everyone. We've proven model behavior that we'll investigate whatever is lying around, so why change the dissemination from one that already works if it's just a distraction?

[ kaveh pauses. he feels ill. he says: ]

... because the information I would give out, knowing that the residents of this city will investigate it, is outdated data meant to ensure they are focused on something that isn't myself or my team.

Then you're taking up the position of someone who has actually replaced Dr. Sumalee?

Yes, someone or a team of someones. I still think there may be experimental value to giving context on what this experiment is in order to give those learning about it an impetus to band together. This is, as it seems, an experiment meant to test cooperation and community bonding. However, why would I need to give them something real? If I wanted something convincing, I only need to give them something that had once been real.

But then what's the experimental value of making the impetus against the researchers? Whatever crisis is threatening them isn't being a bunch of lab rats against their will. If this was somehow the only way they could get efficient cooperation out of all possible environmental dangers they can put us through, what value is that data to them?

Isn't the value simply a continuation of their current parameters? How else can they test the formation of community bonds without something to truly rally against?

[ kaveh looks. ] Have you considered it, Alhaitham? The meaning behind community bonds when it comes to pushing back against change in climate.

But if they have full control of a simulation, why not give us something to rally against that's closer to the actual problem they're dealing with?

[This conversation would probably make more sense if they had an idea of the actual context of climate change. Unfortunately,]

It's a matter of ensuring survival, isn't it? An individual has less resources and power to weather a landslide versus a village, even if the disaster were of a greater scale on the greater population. There is still an exponential increase in capability within a community, but only if the community can operate cohesively.

They have full control over the simulation, but they hardly have full control over time itself. I posit that this is the last simulation, and they are running out of time. That's why they must perform more drastic actions than previous ones.

[ just saying it feels like betrayal, however. there's a desperation to it that kaveh isn't comfortable with. the last simulation. could that really be it?

he considers this. ]

I agree with this analysis. But I'd push it one step further - community cohesion has always been about the capacity to choose others over the needs of oneself. I think of the way this city tests for intent. If I knock a hole in a wall, it will be repaired. But if I knock a hole in the wall for the purpose of building a diner, a community project, it's allowed to remain. This isn't so much about survival, then, but it's about value.

Now it feels like you're just making things up to justify your stance. [These simulations have gone on a long time, but nothing is concrete enough to suggest it's final desperation.]

You already know I disagree with that: a cohesive society is better served by people with the freedom act based on their desires rather than relying on obligation. There will be those that naturally gravitate to different roles within a community and a vested interest creates better results.

We're also allowed to expand our apartments for our own benefit. Rather, the measure of intent for criminal activity is one way that community bones can be monitored for their development before they're put through a stress test.

Fifty simulations, and you don't read that they've reached some measure of self-awareness of the passing of time and the expenditure of the resources? You're the one not reading into it properly.

[ kaveh frowns. he tips his chin. ] Either way, I don't see an inherent contradiction between personal intent and community intent. Weren't you the one who always agreed with this aspect of communal being: that if you are to save someone, you must first save yourself. We are allowed to expand our apartments for our own benefit because benefiting ourselves means we are in a better position to give back to the environment. I will make a bet with you that if the apartment wall I knock down for myself is adjacent to the apartment of another person trying to enjoy their space, the hole will be repaired in twenty-four hours, and I'll be in handcuffs by day's end.

Give yourself a life vest before giving someone else a life vest. While I personally don't agree with this view, that doesn't mean I can't argue it when I plainly see it. Obligations exist because of the unwritten social contract. Freedom only exists in the context of obligation.

I didn't say that, I just disagree with assuming this must be the last experiment. We don't know how much time and resources they have to burn. The fact they could already do it for decades is well beyond anything we would be used to.

Obligations aren't the only determinate of freedom. What I'm saying is, we haven't yet been pressured to sacrifice our own needs for the sake of others. Instead we've been given a stage in which we can fully choose without obligation how much of our effort we wish to give to the other people. Even the reduced restocking has been mostly offset with each new district.

If there's a value metric outside our capacity to survive each test and the time in between, it's the degree people will choose cooperation of their own accord.

[ here, kaveh's train of thought rolls to a gentle, wayward stop. he considers this. ]

While I see where you are coming from, I disagree - because while we haven't been pressured to sacrifice our own needs for the sake of others, we have been put into simulations that were meant to raise the stress level in order for us to have a chance to showcase if we would choose others over ourselves. The mall had that graffiti, didn't it? 'Safety in numbers'. It was hinting that we should stay together to be safer, and it did make it safer, because the apparitions were terrible to behold on your own. If you had someone else with you, they could at least talk you out of it, or made sure you didn't punch a wall in the process.

So how is this any different, the dissemination of information that we can barely trust? How is this any different than giving us another, bigger opportunity to decide if we choose cooperation on our own accord or not? Because isn't there an alternative? To see if this unites us, or to see if there are people who want to align with our captors for a chance to be freed sooner.

Did you punch a wall? [Just curious.]

That alternative doesn't exist yet. Perhaps it will, but until we receive proper communication no one can hope to act on such an idea. We have confirmation, but ultimately nothing about our situation has changed.

No. Heine did.

[ kaveh says, and recalls how he couldn't have stopped him, even if he tried. but he had held heine's hand in its aftermath. that was all he could do. it had to be enough. ]

And it's not until we receive proper communication - it's until we've found a way to properly communicate, one way or another. I agree that our situation has not fundamentally changed - but our mindsets have, hasn't it? When I look around me, I see focus and determination. Is that not a tangible change?

[Ah, Heine. It must have been later, after he'd been through the cycle of Lily's death too many times.

Also:] I was always determined to get out of here.

[ kaveh's eyes curve around its edges. ]

Of course. It's you, after all. But in this particular scenario, against these particular odds, it's not you alone who will get us out. It will be us together. Isn't it so?

[Alhaitham hums.] Wasn't it always so?

[He reaches for one of the document copies and starts jotting down notes.]

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[open] plot clue club meeting

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